If we a looking to protect innocent victims from religious zealots-who kill in the name of their religion and hatred of the US--Is a religious institution not the most logical place to look?

Why don't you print these poll results and send to other newspapers.How people really feel is more important the the politically correct sentiment that the media expresses. The NYPD should be commended for their efforts to provide safety to the public and we are lucky to have them doing their job!! I sleep better at night!!

Funny how we refuse to buckle to political correctness when we are afraid of terrorism, but we are slaves the the PC machine in every other aspect of our lives. We, the general public, are a complete joke sometimes.

This is called being proactive. If you read further into the case, they were not arbitrarily following around every Muslim they could find. They targeted organizations that had, in previous cases, been breeding grounds for radical ideology, and ones suspected of having ties to particular clerics and organizations.

Last time I saw a headline showing Islamic Terorists causing harm in the US was 11 years ago, last time I saw a headline with a devout Roman Catholic doing things with young boys at a school in New Jersey was only a few weeks ago. Then of course there is a teacher from Lyndhurst, the former DEA agent in Nutley, and that filth from Penn State, all Roman Catholic, all involved with children and/or teens. Following every Roman Catholic is not going to stop child sexual abuse any more than following every Muslim is going to stop terrorism. But if the NYPD continues its ways I would have to support monitoring of every RC everywhere.

It's called the Forth Amendment, people. Read; be it - or lose it.

I wonder if I should be concerned for my life. I downloaded a copy of the Koran/Quran, and later deleted it. Is that worse than burning it? That crazy book demonizes and condemns "unbelievers" right out of the gate. I'd like to understand Islam. I really would. I borrowed an audiobook lecture on Islam from the public library, and didn't gain any positive insights. It seems like an incoherent bunch of verses. Holden Magroin's post is more coherent than the "English Translation of the Holy Quran: by Maulana Muhammad Ali" Google that.

The Fourth Amendment reads : "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

overreach; why does the NYPD think it has jurisdiction in NJ?
It should have been a case for the FBI

If you read the report, this was not in response to any terroristic concerns. Mosques, Masjids, restaurants, and other social meeting places were monitored by a local police dept. from another jurisdiction. This same dept. maintains surveillance of students that they believe to be Muslims at Universities outside of NYC, anyone with a Muslim/Islamic/Arabic/African name in the tri-state area, and anyone who has converted to Islam. This is not the FBI and COINTELPRO, but a supposedly "local" police dept. that has become an intelligence gathering organization without
jurisdiction or mandate.
You always sleep well at night as long as you think you are not one of "them", Muslim, Black, Poor, Immigrant, Latino, ________ (fill in the blank). Just remember, that your "Us" status is tenuous at best.

"Just remember, that your "Us" status is tenuous at best."

An editorial in today's NYTimes - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/opinion/nocera-a-revolutionary-idea.html - reminded me of an old absurdity I'd noted. When the Puritans arrived here, they didn't seek to establish a place devoid of religious bigotry. There merely wanted to be the bigots in charge.

I'd seen this before in my own life: victims of some form of oppression with no hesitation to oppress. I've never understood this.

The point about our membership in the "us" group being tenuous reflects my logic. Why would I want a society that condones bigotry and discrimination if it can one day be turned on me or my children? Yet this seems to be exactly what some here do seek.

It's not smart,

...Andrew

I agree with Butterfly. While I am torn between national security and individual liberties, I am steadfast in my belief that such investigations should be handled at the federal level or at the very least by cooperating state police agencies, not municipal police. Yes, the NYPD is a municipal agency, albeit the largest in the country.

I don't see a violation to the 4th amendment. Where in the story does it say that the NYPD has searched private property? Surveillance and monitoring of persons and places is absolutely what all law enforcement should be doing. That is called proactive police work. Thank you NYPD. And to all you narrow minded people who think the police do this based solely on the fact that the targets are muslin, think again, do you really believe that the police have never conducted surveillance on Italians or Russians or social clubs in the past. If the NYPD or any police department wants to set up shop across the street from my home and or place of worship and monitor me that’s fine. I bet after a few days or weeks they will be gone because I am not doing anything wrong. Innocent people need not worry. God Bless America

Dam if you do Dam is you don't.... Islamist extremist exist, if they do not check and something happened someone gets blame. If you do check you still get blame. I think I would go with the safe side and check. This is not discriminating.

John, You said "Last time I saw a headline showing Islamic Terorists causing harm in the US was 11 years ago". Respectfully, you must not look hard. From Saturday's Investors Business Daily Op Ed page:
"- On Feb. 17, the FBI nabbed a Muslim suicide bomber headed for the U.S. Capitol.
- In September, a Muslim man from Massachusetts was busted plotting to fly bomb-laden model planes into the Capitol and Pentagon.
- Nearly a year earlier, a Muslim man from Virginia was arrested for trying to help al-Qaida plan multiple bombings against the D.C.subway.
- In 2010, another Virginia Muslim — this one an ex-Marine — screamed "Allah Akbar" as he shot at the Pentagon and other military buildings.
- On Feb. 10, an Islamist man with ties to Uzbekistan pleaded guilty to plotting to assassinate the president.
- This past week a Saudi national had to be restrained after smoking an electronic cigarette on board a flight from Portland to Houston. He punched a crew member and screamed "Allah is great, Allah is great" before being subdued. He also made references to Osama bin Laden.
- Last year, in another example, a Yemeni man rammed the cockpit on an Airlines flight while screaming "Allah Akbar."
http://news.investors.com/article/602311/201202241858/republican-debate-glosses-over-terror-threat.htm?src=SeeAlso

If we are to allow profiling then we might as well start encouraging the IRS to profile white men and perform audits on them every year. White men are the richest members of our society, their cheating on taxes each year costs the US more money than other races/sexes. None of should mind this intrusion as it is for the better good, right?

Does anyone else find it strange that the same people who "blamed Bush for 'allowing' 9/11 to happen" are the same ones belly aching about the surveillance being conducted? Unfortunately, and right or wrong, the "terrorist" element in the Muslim community hides in plain sight, and uses Mosques usually without the Mosque knowing it is being used.

NYPD can do this because of something called "mutual aid." It's Intelligence Division has contacts in the FBI, and if they did uncover something, the local police would be informed and asked to take the appropriate action. While this may be hurtful or insulting for the Muslim Community, they need to recognize that it is meant to keep them safe as well. Would you prefer to be known as the place that a plot was thwarted, or the place that inspired the plot?

As has been reported by the AP when this story began to come to light last year, this is a CIA operation, which completely goes against their mandate re: domestic surveillance, funded with Federal Anti-Drug money from the White House, carried out by the NYPD. These ARE the " blame Bush for letting 9/11 happen" folks. In fact, the NYPD/CIA has gone AGAINST the FBI in carrying out this operation and arresting/charging individuals based on it. And with all of this 24/7 monitoring of Muslims, I expect the next real "terrorist" to look, live, socialize, and pray just like the "mainstream"- you know, like Oklahoma.

My god white people. For every problem there exists in the world if you look closely, its the white man who is the root of the problem. They are the root of all the problems and are the first to cry injustice and alarm the world of concern of world affairs. Lets not play dumb or naive here. This is how ugly it can get if you want to go there. If you really want to come out your shell and be as open to the world as possible and let it all out then it will get ugly. I cant sit here and pretend that half these comments about being for racial profiling is not from white people. Do you fact checking people. Evil people are all around the world and ultimately they get their resources and funding from one source. Drug dealers, terrorists, mafia, politicians all run in the same circle. That's the truth of the matter no matter how much you tend to look the other way. That's life and these are rules to live by if you're going to survive here. It's just sad that its 2012 and every time you think some sort of real progress is being made to close the gap between people the bigots come out in full force. The same people who are saying to racially profile people who are easily the same ones who are treating their sicked loved ones or even themselves, who are kind of enough to put up with their arrogance and rudeness and chauffeur their sorry behinds.

Nick Munson, I
See Mike's post above and his the list of foiled terror attempts. I have every right to make the statement I did in my post. Every day the NYPD has surveillance of bridges and tunnels and major transportation hubs. Divers are deployed regularly checking the footings of bridges and as information is received of potential attacks these activities are increased. The NYPD is the only police force with Arabic speaking detectives undercover in the middle east. It's truly astounding how thorough they are protecting the number one target of these extremists, NYC. The reason we have been safe for 11 years and will continue to be is because of the NYPD. As long as we have leaders who witnessed or remember the innocent good people who jumped to certain death from the burning towers instead of facing certain death by fire, we will have a proactive not reactive NYPD. They remember the towers coming down and the death of so many. NYPD remain proactive and as we did in WWII when we spied on anyone possibly associated with the Nazi's to stop their awful aggression and destruction of innocent people because of their creed, race and infirmities.

If the information was out in the open, then who cares. The gov. reads all e-mail and monitors all cell/phone traffic as it is and yet we bleat like goats when NYPD looks at facebook pages that are open? Gimme a break. Odds are it will be lone whackos who do the damage rather than our American Muslim friends.

Yet we keep letting these religious fanatics into our country thinking they'll meld in like all the other Immagrents. These are not "Westernized" people. These are not Italians or Irish, or even Indian (India) or Hispanics. These people are hard wired to decieve and do in all those who do not believe their crazy religion. Sweden is now paying for that liberal Westernized belief. Oh, they'll adapt and change. WRONG! They want to do us in and take over. And we keep letting them in. How stupid can we be? Just plain STUPID!

Nick, you are not considering that terrorist attacks were in fact detected and stopped, Mike's list is a partial list but it makes the point that the surveillance has stopped terrorist attacks so far. The drone attacks on the leaders of the Islamic terrorist has also helped stop further attacks. How to use the word "pious" to describe anyone who honors and make sure that the 9/11 horrific attacks are not forgotten is a very sadd misuse of rhetoric!

Butterfly, no one wants a police state, but we must have security. Is Israel a police state or do they have strong monitoring controls to ensure the safety of their citizens from terror attacks? Was London in WWII a police state as they made sure the Nazi's did not infiltrate their government and undermine their sovereignty? My fated grew up in Queens NY and recall the time Germany was advancing throughout Europe and there were German groups, NOT ALL Germans, that were meeting in support of the Nazi movement. The government properly saw those groups as risk to our country and monitored them. Bobby Kennedy as Attorney General monitored the horrific KKK as they committed atrocities against innocent Black people. Was that a police state to monitor invididipuals who were white and perhaps members of the KKK? I am sure some white people were monitored who were not in the KKK. Was that wrong? Of course not as there was a greater good at stake. Our constitution allows for flexibility to ensure that in times of danger that our government can protect our liberties. The radical Islam want to destroy or freedoms and constitution and replace it all with the Koran. Radical Islam is no different that what the Nazi's wanted to accomplish, totalitarian dictatorship of all and destruction of anything that stands in the way of their version of Islam or as the Nazi's professed Arian Supremacy.

Nick,
You need to read the full post that I made. I said that the NYPD and the military drone attacks have twarted further terror attacks, and now I will add, the CIA and military and other intelligence gathering agencies are gathering information every day that is trying to keep us all safe. I recall 9/11 not as a way to claim the pulse of America, but rather to keep recent history in focus.

This situation reminds me of an analogy I read once. I paraphrase LTC (RET) Dave Grossman: 'There are three kinds of people in the world: sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Sheep are peaceful and helpless. Wolves are violent and prey on sheep. But a sheepdog lives in both worlds…peaceful as a sheep by choice, but capable of being like a wolf when necessary to protect the sheep. A paradox is that while the sheep need the sheepdog, they generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."'

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Jimmy, well said and good point. You and Sigmund are correct that analogies prove nothing; that is why they are called analogies. They aren't meant to prove anything definitively, they can only offer things to think about; the final determination still must be made by the individual. In the case of the analogy I used above, nothing was proven, or offered as such. The sheep stayed sheep, the wolves stayed wolves and the sheepdogs continued their thankless but necessary duty; no one's mind or behavior was changed in the pasture. Sounds a lot like this thread. That was the point I was trying to make.

For the most part "they" are American citizens who, along with their families, may have been in our Country for many years and have been loyal and patriotic and may have even served our Country in the armed forces. What is happening to "them" would be akin to my parents and myself being under surveillance because my grandparents and parents were born in Eastern Europe. I had apparently been so thorougly veted when I applied for Navy Officer's Candidate School that within days of the Cuban Missle crisis I was quickly given top secret clearance. In my case this inquiry was totally appropriate. It would not have been had I simply been a recent college graduate and a good citizen..

Remember what happened to American citizens of Japanese descent during WWII? Still a major embarassment for our Country.